Daniel J. Marino
Managing Partner, Lumina Health Partners
Managing Partner, Lumina Health Partners
Daniel J. Marino: Welcome to another episode of Value-Based Care Insights. I'm your host, Daniel Marino. Really excited about today's episode, today actually marks our 50th podcast episode of Value-Based Care Insights. Thinking back over the last two and a half years and the 50 episodes that we've done, there has been some great information, great insights, great guests, and just fantastic topics that we've had and been very fortunate to share with all of our listeners, and with many organizations. Tell me about these episodes and kind of reflect on the last couple of years. I've invited my colleague Lucy Zielinski to join me, Lucy, welcome to the program.
Lucy Zielinski: Hi, Dan, thanks for having me. I'm really excited about this. It's just amazing. Thinking back that we've recorded 50 episodes, when we started this, I was I've got to tell you, I didn't even think we were gonna do 10, let alone 50. And I don't think you knew what a podcast host was.
Daniel J. Marino: I really didn't. And I could remember way back when I think it was you and a couple of my colleagues, one of which was Shaillee Chopra. For a while there, she was our co-host with me. She was talking to me about the direction of the podcast and that this would be a great way to be able to share a lot of thoughts and to educate folks. And I've got to tell you, I was skeptical right off the bat. But I'll tell you, it turned out to be something far and away exceeding my expectations and what we've accomplished with these podcasts.
Lucy Zielinski: And I think I think you've done a phenomenal job. And it really lends well to your expertise. I mean, you wear those shoes in the health care environments, in the provider space, working with physicians working with hospitals. So I think all of that wisdom to be able to share that with listeners is very important. So Dan, let me turn the tables on you today. Can I just for today? Can I play host? And can you be the guest?
Daniel J. Marino: Absolutely. I think this would be fun. Let's do it. Let's reflect on what we've learned and what we've done and maybe where we're going.
Lucy Zielinski: All right. Let me ask the questions, Dan. So, as I think back when you first started this, I remember looking at some of the data and we had less than 50 downloads. And now as I look at the episodes and all the downloads, there's even episodes that have 2000 downloads. Wow, that's pretty amazing. And what's really amazing is that the total plays for the 49 episodes that you've done, have totaled over 35,000. And I know adding more platforms Apple Spotify anchor in really being syndicated on health care radio now has helped that growth. So how does it feel, Dan, for you to see that growth?
Daniel J. Marino: It's exciting in one respect, and it's humbling. And another, you know, part of what I think has been a foundation of our consulting firm Lumina is the fact that we've really focused on educating our leaders, educating the health care industry, sharing information and sharing insights. And I've done that all through my career, the podcasts that we've created, the episodes and really Value-Based Care Insights have just given us that greater opportunity to share insights. And I'll tell you, you know, I get a lot of my information, my knowledge from talking with leaders across the country, I bet you from one week to the next, I probably talked to anywhere between 10 to 15 leaders, hearing what they do and sort of the challenges that they have. And I wrap all that information into the podcast, through guests and so forth. Really trying to touch on the issues of today that are affecting the health care industry.
Lucy Zielinski: That's very important. As you mentioned, being in the health care space, having that hands on knowledge, think it's been over 30 years for you hasn't it been?
Daniel J. Marino: Oh gosh, and that's scary. Yes, it has.
Lucy Zielinski: For me as well. Do you remember the days of the ledger cards and green bar reports? I'm ashamed to say I think that's when we started.
Daniel J. Marino: It certainly has come a long way since then. Absolutely.
Lucy Zielinski: And now there's powerful analytics and really innovation at its best with care delivery, we've made a lot of advances. And you mentioned this a moment ago, the word insights that just keeps on standing out for me the word insights and neat, that's even in our title, Value-Based Care Insights. So what insights when you first started this podcast that you really want to share with our listeners,
Daniel J. Marino: One of the areas that I think is a continued challenge for many leaders is that often when they're thinking about solving problems, they're very focused on the crisis at hand, and what they know is really around what's in their four walls or within their organization. A lot of times, it's difficult for us to separate ourselves from those internal constraints that we have, and to focus on how other people are doing it, or how they're solving those problems. So the background or really, the focus around value based care, insights and insights in general, is to broaden the perspective of these leaders to give them some other views, other ways of thinking through things, other solutions to help them solve their problems. And I can think way back when when we started this really around value based care, everybody was trying to figure it out. Right. And one of the common things that I heard from, gosh, if I heard it from one CFO, I must have heard it from 20 is how do we create? How do we quantify the value of population health? So we spent some time if you remember, in those early days, kind of talking about how other people created that value, how they saw an ROI. And I'll tell you the feedback that I had for many CFOs at that time, was that, hey, we didn't have all the answers. But it was great to hear how other people were doing it. And we were able to incorporate a lot of those learnings into our own organization. That's the success I love to hear coming out of the podcasts.
Lucy Zielinski: It's sharing those insights and sitting on that bird perch, because many organizations don't take a pause, and learn and see what others are doing. And I know Dan, you lead many organizations and facilitate retreats with boards and senior leaders. And so that experience, also I'm sure has given you some intel and insight into what's going on in the organization's what direction they should go into, and what they can do.
Daniel J. Marino: Absolutely. And, you know, I think that's a big value that I think we as an organization, as a consulting firm bring to a lot of our clients is being able to share that knowledge and to share kind of the lessons learned that, you know, we've learned from other organizations, or that we can connect one organization with to another organization to share some of those insights, some of those lessons learned. And I'll tell you and I keep going back to this part as much as I've enjoyed sharing learnings with a lot of the listeners, I myself have learned a great deal from talking to people around the country from having guests on just engaging in really intellectually stimulating conversations, topics and so forth. I've probably learned as much from them as hopefully they've learned from me.
Lucy Zielinski: Let's talk about those guests. Dan, you've had some interesting people over the last 49 episodes. And I know it's fun for you to have these conversations from folks from different areas, different unique roles in the health care industry, from finance to operation to technology and innovative companies. So what guests have been, what can I say have been impressive to you? What guests stand out for you?
Daniel J. Marino: I think a couple of them. One guest, or actually, guests that I had on were colleagues of ours, Steve Berger, who's a former CFO, and Dr. George Mayzell, who was the chief medical officer, and the topic that we talked about, was creating the rapport between finance leaders and clinical leaders. And I can remember in that podcast, it was such a fun podcast. I remember in that podcast, we talked about value and how you define value. And Dr. Mayzell, of course, took it from the clinical perspective. And Steve stopped them and started to chime in from the finance perspective. And although both of these gentlemen were correct on their definition, how they went about it in the debate that they had was fascinating. And I'll tell you, I felt more like a referee than I did a podcast host at that time. It was just great, the rapport, the conversation and so forth. That we had was definitely one that stood out.
Lucy Zielinski: And as a matter of fact, that's the podcast with Health care Radio Now, that was the most listened to podcast out of all 49.
Related Podcast: A Physician and Finance Leader Talk: How to Collaborate to Reduce Costs and Manage Outcomes
Daniel J. Marino: You're right. And I'll tell you, it really was a fun podcast for me most because the way that they approached it, I'm sure it's very similar to the type of discussions that occur in many health care organizations around the country, when you have the physicians taking the perspective of the clinical view, and then you have the finance leader taking the perspective of the finance view, right. And both of them are all right, but they come at it from a different perspective. And it was just I couldn't say enough about the pockets. It was a lot of fun.
Lucy Zielinski: Isn't the thing that we say no margin, no mission? Or is it no mission, no margin?
Daniel J. Marino: That's very true. No doubt about it. So Dan, who was another guest that impressed you?
Daniel J. Marino: I can remember when COVID hit. And a lot of people were just clamoring for information. You know, we were all locked down around March, April, May of 2020. And everybody's trying to figure out what to do and where to get information, and so forth. And one of the guests that I had on was Dr. Mike Hill, who was an infectious disease physician out of St. Tammany Parish down in just a little bit north of New Orleans. And Dr. Hill was great. And being an infectious disease physician specialist, he's very much focused on the data and on the numbers. And I recorded the podcast, I can remember it was probably around the early part of June. And he gave such a different perspective on what the data means and how to take that data on the infection rate of COVID. And really push it out to the community. And they took such a different perspective within their organization and how they were attacking COVID, so to speak, and how they were treating patients. I thought that that was fantastic. And and again, that one really resonated with me because, you know, we were only getting our information from the news at that time. And, you know, it was very challenging to really find out what was real versus, you know, what was sort of vaporware information. And Dr. Hill brought such a clear perspective of that. And it was something that again, they really wrapped into their clinical approach, their care models and so forth. I really enjoyed that podcast as well.
Related Podcast: Managing the COVID Surge From an Infectious Disease Perspective
Lucy Zielinski: It sounds like that data is so important to turn that into information, and then communicate that information to all the stakeholders, right? Physicians, patients, health care executives, leaders, and so on, because that then creates a sound and leadership structure.
Daniel J. Marino: You know, another one that stood out for me to Lucy was, we've had a few ones related to technology. And I think a couple of the other ones that we had, were really around how we were using technology to create more direct virtual health and connectedness with patients. That was one that was really good. I know, you know, even in the early parts of the pandemic, you know, again, everybody was sort of trying to figure out what telehealth meant. We did a couple of podcasts that were some really good ones. I really enjoyed those as well.
Related Reading: How to Launch Telehealth Services
Lucy Zielinski: I think as I took a look at the data leadership, operational efficiencies, financial type topics seem to be the most downloaded topics. So as we think about some of those topics, Dan in the 49th episode, what are maybe three pearls of wisdom or insights that you gleaned that listeners should know?
Daniel J. Marino: I think one and we sort of touched on this is that, you know, as organizations are starting to solve problems or attack problems, particularly those that are more strategic in nature, it's great to be able to, you know, look for information or share information or understand how other people are doing it, those lessons learn, to be able to incorporate into their own learnings, I think is really key. And one of the things I'm particularly proud of is we've got a library of 49 podcasts, that and it's growing, right? So if leaders have a question, or if they have a problem, or if they want to be able to see how other people have attacked these issues, my hope is that they're going to the library and downloading those, or at least listening to them. That would be number one. I think the second thing to a big takeaway from this is that, you know, sharing of the network is really key. And I would encourage many of our listeners to reach out to me directly, and especially if you just want to have a conversation, you know, I think to be able to share those insights to be able to hear how you know you're attacking certain problems or to hear how other folks are attacking certain problems, or just to share quick wins. Boy, I love that and I wrap a lot of those learnings into our discussion. And then I think the per the third piece here is I try to stay on the cutting edge. I'm on and be able to deliver information that is exciting to folks that is at the top of the industry topics that really provide a level of strategic thought as well as operational, let's say solutions, if you will, that help organizations advance and I think we've been able to do that, across all of our 49 episodes so far.
Lucy Zielinski: Dan, it sounds like three things, gleaning from others, sharing a network and really staying current.
Daniel J. Marino: I think those are the key things. And when you talk to people, and I've often, you know, asked people all the time, what are they liked, or not liked about the podcasts? Those are the three things that have resonated with them, and which I'm happy to hear: that's alignment with what our goals are for the podcast, as well.
Lucy Zielinski: And we talked about goals of the podcast as we're moving into this year, right? What are some of those health care trends or topics that you would like to focus on or talk about or have guests to discuss with? What are some of those topics?
Daniel J. Marino: About three weeks ago, maybe a little longer than that, we did a webinar on the top 10 trends that health care providers need to be concerned with or looking to as they move into 2022. And it was a pretty successful sharing of information.
Lucy Zielinski: I was there too.
Daniel J. Marino: You were! I know we did it together, we did a great job. I thought, you know, it was great feedback on that webinar. And as I reflect back on those and think about where the industry is going, there's three of them that really sort of resonate or are the high priority ones. And I would say rebuilding operating margins for health care organizations, for hospitals, we have to get back to the point where we were pre-COVID, pre-COVID wasn't all that great, but it's better than it is now. So we're going to be providing a lot of insights for organizations for leaders as to how they could kind of realign themselves and get themselves back to a point where, at least from an operating margin perspective, they're at that pre-COVID level and hopefully beyond. I think the second is that the care model has changed, we will never go back to how it was pre COVID. Virtual health has changed the way we're delivering care. Primary Care in and of itself has been revolutionized through virtual health, even urgent care has been revolutionized. So we're going to have quite a bit of quite a few guests that are talking about that evolving care model. And the last one, which I think is really important, is we have to deal with the workforce issues that we have here. We're seeing many organizations who are short staffed, many organizations who have staff that are burned out, and many organizations who are focusing on improving physician wellness. We are going to spend quite a bit of time talking about that and sharing some insights. And Lucy, this is the perfect example on how organizations can learn from other organizations. There are so many organizations across the country who are putting in place different initiatives to address physician wellness, workforce related issues, retention issues, and so forth. My goal is to get those leaders on the podcast, have them share stories and be able to share those insights. That's really my hope for this next year.
Lucy Zielinski: Other great topics, Dan, I'm looking forward to hearing. Hearing you and hearing our guests speak about those topics. One of the other topics I would add to that is leadership. I think leadership is so critical, especially today, with all of the changes in all of the pressures that are occurring in health care. It really takes an individual to be a solid leader to be effective. And having emotional intelligence is so important. It's not like the old days where you just told someone to do something and they would do it. There are many things to consider these days, especially as you're working in a team. Many of these organizations have dyad structures where they're teaming up physicians, clinical people, staff with executives, and to be able to work together collectively collaboratively, in unison, working towards the same strategy or the same vision is so important. So I think that's another topic that would be worthwhile.
Daniel J. Marino: I agree. And I think, you know, as we start to think about developing our leaders of tomorrow, as you mentioned, I think there's some key things to consider emotional intelligence is one change managers And as another, you know, dealing with the operational and strategic issues of organizations could potentially be a third. And it's not only important to develop the senior leaders, but it's also really important to develop the middle managers, for many, many organizations, when we were within, you know, when we were dealing with COVID, the senior leaders had to kind of take the reins, right and make sure that everything was was performing, but it created a lot of stress for the middle manager level. And it created a lot of stress for the seniors and for the physician leaders as well. So I'm excited to be able to share insights as to how, say, we can provide greater leadership development for middle managers, for physician leaders that will help these organizations sort of push down the decision making, and just make them much more effective and much stronger as an organization.
Lucy Zielinski: But you know, I'm gonna hand it back to you to wrap.
Daniel J. Marino: Thanks, I appreciate that! I again want to thank all of our listeners for over two and a half great years and 49 episodes. We're looking forward to well beyond 49 going forward. It's been a lot of fun, love sharing the stories, and I'm looking forward to having some great guests invited on our podcast and if any of you, as I mentioned, are interested in sharing your story or having a conversation or just saying hello, please feel free to reach out. Again, my email is firstname.lastname@example.org. Please reach out. I'd love to hear from you. Until next time, thank you again for listening. This is Value-Based Care Insights. I'm your host Daniel Marino.
About Value-Based Care Insights Podcast
Value-Based Care Insights is a podcast that explores how to optimize the performance of programs to meet the demands of an increasingly value-based care payment environment. Hosted by Daniel J. Marino, the VBCI podcast highlights recognized experts in the field and within Lumina Health Partners.